Session 1 and 2 | Why Coach Mental Health Matters: Prioritizing Self to Best Serve Others

Something that we stress is, “Hey, we’re the coaches. You guys are the players. This is our team. This is us.” We try to stress a culture that is open and where kids and athletes can come and talk and be like, “Hey, coach, this happened in the game the other day and I don’t know how I feel about it.” Or, “This happened in my life and I don’t know how to feel about it.” So being able to create that culture is something that we’ve stressed. And you talk about, how does that create positivity? I say this. I coach high school basketball and these kids are 17, 18 years old. They make me feel old. I’m not that much older than them, but they say, “Hey, coach, can we talk about this?” And for me to be able to put my ego aside and our other coaching staff to put all of our collective egos aside and say, “Hey, yeah, let’s talk about it. Let’s hear what they have to say.”

Because again, we’re better as a whole than just me telling you what to do, and again, I’m a believer that makes us a better team in general. It makes everybody happier. Again, to your point, it may be hard conversations to have, but will get us in a better position if we have those conversations than if we don’t.

Jim Miller: Yeah, that’s good stuff. So I love the culture conversation. Everybody has a winning culture, a champion culture, a high performance culture. Everybody’s trying to create some sort of culture, and if you go into any locker room anywhere in the world, you see the same stuff. But what culture really is is behavior. This is how you behave. How you behave around one another, what’s acceptable, how you’re going to treat each other, the relationships you build. Coaching is relationships. Your behaviors create these standards and what’s going to be acceptable, and for me, before you really ever do create winners or champions or winning teams, you have to behave like it, you have to act like it. You have to treat people accordingly. And if you want to have that in your teams, then you have to model that. You have to be that person, and that is exhausting. Living to high standards is exhausting.

Sometimes, you don’t want to live to high standards. Sometimes, you don’t want to get up and push. Sometimes, you don’t want to get up and try or have that conversation. There’s times where you just want to be. But I think that’s the beauty of this, is if you can create this within your team, you don’t have to be the one who’s solely responsible for doing it all the time. Other people can pick it up and do it and manage it, but I think as leaders, you have to be at the position where you set the standards, you set the behavior and you model that for your coaches, and they consequently model that for their athletes. And when you’re tired, you have to know yourself. You have to know when to stop. You have to know when to say, “Okay, I need a break.” You need to know yourself well enough to know what you need to do to recharge and to get yourself back to that point where you can live that high standard and live that behavior.

So for me, when everybody talks about culture, immediately, I’m like, what’s their behavior? They can say it, but do they live it? Do they walk it? Do they carry it? Do they model it to their teams? Is it visible? It has to be visible. If it’s not visible, then it’s not really there. And yeah, I think as coaches then, yeah, if I take a break, I know that I’m tired, I have to step away. They see that, they can also do the same thing themselves and I think that’s really important. You’re not a good coach if you’re… You can be a good coach tired, but you can’t be a great coach, and for what most of us are trying to do, you have to be great.

Joe Delagrave: Yeah, I think there’s two paths to this conversation. One, the performative side. Wheelchair rugby, we’ve meddled in every single or podiumed in every single Paralympics and world championships in our history, so there’s high expectations there. And with that comes a lot of pressure, and our athletes feel that pressure, but I think them understanding what the expectation is, and it’s a known expectation, is really, really important. The way they’re able to know those expectations is through the vision. I think a lot of times, as coaches, it can be a little bit lonely. It can be a little bit fearful to put your vision out there and let it be known so people can start poking holes in it and whatnot, but they know the vision. They know where their vehicle’s going, they know where we’re headed. They know why we’re going there.

Number two, do they have a voice? Athletes need a voice. As a former athlete, I think that’s really, really big. Is your leadership echoing what you’re saying? Are your captains echoing what you’re saying? Are your athlete representatives echoing what you’re saying? Do they have that voice? Do they feel like they have that voice? And then number three is value. Do they feel valued in your program? Do they feel like they have a place? And I think the value comes along with is knowing who they are. Do they get to show up as their holistic, real, authentic self? A lot of times, athletes can feel like they’re just a pawn in this whole scheme, and if they’re valued and you’re talking about what we talked about in that first question, that they’re talking about where they’re going next, what their purpose is in life, hopefully, their passion in this sport can meet their intersection with their purpose and take it on, but are they feeling valued in that? And so I think that’s really, really important in being able to have a championship culture.

Charron Sumler: I love that, is that vision, value and voice is what you’re really trying to role model for your team culture. I heard role modeling a lot from Jim in terms of walking the walk and talking the talk, and showing your coaches and your athletes how to do it. I heard shared power from Coach Geoff in terms of letting your athletes in as a part of the community, empowering them to speak up and empowering them to reach out for what they need. And really, vulnerability is what I heard from Leslie, is a willingness for coaches to be vulnerable, reach out and create those open communication lines.

So I want to target that coach-administrator relationship, that coach-leader relationship. We’ve got some early career coaches and we have some administrators and leaders, so I want to hear from our administrators. How do you see the value and how can coaches really maximize that relationship to build a team culture so they’re not doing it on their own?

Leslie Irvine: I say this all the time. I hope that everybody has somebody within their organization that they can really connect to and talk to, and it’s so key. I think what you don’t want to do is put yourselves on an island. When we’re talking about the mental wellness of coaches, it’s really important that you all have your network, and you will. You’ll call your friends who are coaches, but somebody within the institution, and ideally, if it’s the person you’re reporting to, then that’s really, really important. And making sure, even if your administrator doesn’t actively reach out to you to set up meetings, you being proactive in that, saying, “I’d really like to sit down with you once in a while and talk about the team.”

For me, I meet with our coaches at least every couple of weeks, and they know that we’re going to talk about student athletes of concern and so I’m hearing about the things that are really important. And one of my favorite moments is when coaches say to me, “Leslie, will you take your administrator hat off and put your coach’s hat on?” And I’m like, “You know my coach’s hat is always on.” And those moments where coaches are vulnerable and trust, for me, those are the best coaches who are most likely to be successful because they have a growth mindset themselves. They’re coming to work every day to think about being better.

And like I said, sometimes a coach will just sit with me and share some frustration, and I think when you think about our own leadership styles, as they’ve evolved, I talk less, listen more. It’s so important. And sometimes at the end of a rant, I’ll say, “Thank you for sharing that, coach. Would you like me to do something with that? What do you want me to do with this? Do you want me to…” Because I’m a problem solver by nature. And they’re like, “Oh, nothing. I’m good. I feel much better after just talking about this.”

So I think that those types of interactions are really important, and in those moments where if something does happen, you’re not talking to your administrator just because you’re in a moment of crisis, whatever that happens to look like. You’re building a foundation. You all know this, and the best test for you all is are you modeling what you’re asking of your student athletes? That’s a really good thing to think about as you’re sipping on your coffee first thing in the morning.

Charron Sumler: I love that.

Jim Miller: Yeah, I think that’s good. In my career, I’ve been a coach as well, a long coach. I’ve also been an administrator for a long time. I think as a coach, the one thing that I always needed to know was that it was okay to fail. It was okay to try. It was okay to take a chance, and know that you’re going to be okay if you do, that your administrators or your leaders are okay with that. I think as an administrator, then you have to go out of your way to make sure they know that. And for me, that’s what I try to do, is I don’t mind people taking chances. I don’t mind people failing, and I want them to know that they can and they should. That’s generally, I think, where you get to the good stuff. That’s where you get to the results, everything that you’re chasing, but it’s not easy. You’ve been there. It’s not easy to do that, to share that, to get people to have that trust.

Leslie Irvine: I think it’s key that it becomes that a we. I talk to our coaches, we win together, we lose together, and when we talk about winning or I talk about winning, it shouldn’t be perceived as an administrator saying, “You have to win X number of games or you’re out of a job.” It’s actually, we’re building this together and I’m excited with you. That’s the key here as far as the relationship. Again, exactly what you’re doing with your student athletes. You just talked about this. It’s the we. It’s not me.

Geoff Kelly: Exactly.

Jim Miller: Yeah.

Charron Sumler: I’m hearing that it’s really building culture from the top down and modeling from administrator to coach, coach to student athlete. And I would say on my end, I can probably tell from our student athletes, the way their coaches are modeling certain behaviors is the way that they model certain behaviors. It translates and it trickles down. I’m curious from Geoff and Joe, as early career coaches, what types of supports do you lean on in terms of administrators and leadership when you’re creating a team culture or going into the season?

Geoff Kelly: That’s a great question. Again, I’ve been blessed with all the support that I’ve had around me. So we talk about administration, we talk about other coaches that I’ve learned from, head coaches that I coach with who have had that experience. Even old coaches that I had that I can call up and say, “Hey, what did you do in this situation? How did you do that?” But I think just to echo what everybody is saying here, I’m able to do that because I have those relationships. And again, I know I’ve been lucky to have those and build those throughout my time, and not everybody has that. And again, we talk about what can we control? How can we build those relationships? We talk about today, we look around this room. How many people are here? How many people are online? Because again, we’re all trying to work towards the same thing, be a better version of ourselves, be a better mentor, coach, admin, whatever it may be, for our athletes.

So again, that’s what I constantly challenge myself to do is build those networks. Talk to people in this room, talk to people who are here, whether they’re in person or they’re virtual. Just, “Hey, I saw you were here. You’re here obviously for the same reason I am. Can I get your number and lean on you in certain times?” Because maybe I don’t have that in my life right now. So again, that’s what I do, is again, lean on the people that I know are there for me and vice versa, but again, constantly just continue to attend things like this where I’m like, “Hey, I don’t know everything,” and I know here in Colorado Springs, we have a lot of great sports, but it’s not everything. So that’s where I come from and the way I see it.

Joe Delagrave: As far as the last two years for me, transitioning from being an athlete into being the head coach, I realize it’s a very, very lonely position at times. Just being real, and I see a lot of head nods and smiles there where I think we can relate to that as coaches. But in our inner circle, what does that look like? And so for me, building an intentional new locker room. I came from a locker room. I was a college football player before I broke my neck and became a wheelchair rugby player, and so I’ve been around locker rooms my entire life. And then becoming a coach, it’s like a brand new locker room and I need people around me that are going to be human guardrails, that are going to lift me up when I need it and they’re going to pull me back when I need it.

And that’s been an interesting little journey here in the last two years, is realizing how much I need that and how much I need people that will tell me not what I want to hear, but things that I need to hear and not just have the yes men around me. So that’s been something that’s been really important for me.

Charron Sumler: Awesome. Thank you for that. And thinking about the different ways that we can create cultures and the different key players and personnel that can be involved, it’s very vast. So I’m curious about what mental health resources or professionals you found success in bringing into either your team or your institution or department, and talking about what that looks like. How do you choose and select who you want to support your team culture?

Leslie Irvine: I think that’s probably the most important thing that we’re doing as administrators right now, is building those types of resources. It’s so key that when you see a student, not even necessarily in crisis but just beginning to have some problems, and coaches too, that you have a very quick and seamless referral. So for us, we’re really excited about a partnership, and I think that we can all take the concepts from this but create a culture on your campus. This is really briefly, quickly, if you can create a culture on your campus where you can bring other resources in from the community is key, and it’s not about using those resources on campus, but it doesn’t always work. And so the more diverse your resources, the higher chance that the coach or the student’s going to connect.

So for us, we’re doing some proactive work with Children’s Hospital in town, and this is what they do. They are the experts, and we’re actually trying to do… We’ve surveyed our student athletes. We’re learning a lot about the mental wellness of our student athletes. One of the things we learned is nobody knows how to talk to each other, and our coaches are really excited about this because really, we’re talking to our students about, “Here’s how you communicate, here’s how you lean on one another.” And the coach is like, “This is great. They’re more coachable as well. It’s great.” And so we’ve just finished a first cohort of peer coaches. So the point is, for us, we have to invest in the resources, and sometimes, that doesn’t equate necessarily to the dollar sign. It’s actually relationship building, understanding what you have in your organization, in your local community, and bringing them in.

Geoff Kelly: Yeah. I think to build on that, it’s having those relationships, and I think another big thing that we talk about is the consistency of it. And in my playing career and in my short coaching career, we have tried to implement other resources and people that, again, can talk about this stuff. And to be honest with you, that’s where we’ve had a struggle, is staying consistent with it and working with someone or having a program every week or every month where we constantly check in on things. Because again, obviously, all of us know it’s important, whether it’s talking to a sports psych or nutrition or whatever it may be. Having them just be there and have them have the opportunity to build the relationships with the athletes. Because to your point, it’s a vulnerable conversation to have in the first place. So if some brand new person comes in and is like, “Hey, woo. Hey, y’all ready to talk about it today?”

“Yeah, sure. What are we doing?” Okay, then you go through that and sit there for an hour and do that, and then a month goes by, two months goes by. Oh, half the season’s gone. Oh, this person’s coming back in. “Hey, just checking in. How are you guys doing?” That relationship’s not there, and again, it’s a hard conversation as it is. So that’s something that I’m trying to be better at with our team at implementing, and then again, the student athletes that I work with in college as well, is just, hey, consistent with consistency there, because I think that’s huge, right?

Jim Miller: Yeah. So we did something I think that is actually unique amongst NGBs. We hired a director of athlete wellbeing, so somebody whose sole purpose in our company is being responsible for athlete wellbeing. It is one thing for an athlete to be able to come to a coach. Not every athlete can, right? It’s not easy. You go and you have a problem, you want to share it, you feel vulnerable, maybe you feel weak. So we hired a person that their sole job is this. When coaches have athletes that don’t talk or they see problems or they notice something isn’t right, it’s a really easy referral. This person then is totally out of the loop, not in the coaches’ meetings, not part of the coaching staff, not part of the coaching teams, but is there for the athletes. And they can connect them with any sort of resource that athlete may need, and they can check in on them.

And the coaches aren’t going to our director of athlete wellbeing saying, “How’s this person? How’s this person? Give me an update.” Once they go there, they’re with that system, and I think it does take a little bit of pressure off the coaches as well because now you don’t have to be an expert in clinical psychology. You can just refer them to somebody that’s really good at this.

Along with that, we also started what we call a National Team Athlete Summit. So the very first time you make our national team, you’re invited to a summit in January. It’s a chance for you to meet all of our administrative staff, coaching staff, and do it in a sort of environment that’s not sport. It’s like, okay, here’s the CEO. You actually get to sit and talk to him. Here’s myself. You get to sit and talk to me. Here’s the coaches. You get to meet them in a really non-threatening kind of way. If you’ve been on it a couple of years, you don’t have to come back, but it’s just like the intro, onboarding if you will, to the company. Even though the company is sport, it’s still an onboarding of sorts.

Charron Sumler: I love that emphasis on collaboration and not having to be the expert.

Joe Delagrave: Yeah. So Rugby’s obviously a really aggressive sport on the court. There’s a lot of… I mean, basically, wheelchair rugby is like when people in wheelchairs smash into each other and then they’re just chasing each other around, trying to make each other more disabled is basically what’s happening at this point. That’s the politically correct version I use. But anyway, what happens here off the court is we need to talk about our feelings. Any football coaches or any high contact sports, you’re not going to be on the field talking about your feelings. That’s…

Joe Delagrave: High contact sports, you’re not going to be on the field talking about your feelings. Like that’s not a thing, right? But off the court, we do. We talk a lot about it because we need to be short and direct with each other on the court. And so you grow that relationship off the court. So I guess the word that comes to mind throughout this whole thing is normalized. We have sports psychology, we have resources, we have counselors that you can reach out to through the SOVC. But the biggest thing I think with culture is normalizing the conversation. And I realized that starts with our coaching, that starts with our admin, that… Like it needs to be normalized to talk about this. And so that’s what we do a lot. My guys know that. My background’s in professional counseling. My guys know that I love to talk about this stuff.

I love to kumbaya. Let’s get the circle together, let’s do the whole thing. But what’s been beautiful is that some of the conversations that have came out of that, when I shut up and just let them talk and get to listen, is there’s some beautiful conversations that are a rising, and there’s a direct impact on the court. I think that’s, as coaches, that’s what you want to see. You want to see what does this matter to the performance. And as you normalize that conversation, you’re talking about emotions, feelings. You’re talking about what those do for you. And then all of a sudden, you see the impact on the field, on the court, or whatever that looks like for your sport. And that ends up being a pretty beautiful thing.

Charron Sumler: Love that. So I’m really hearing a mixture of being aware of your internal resources, the people within your organization, as well as your external partners that you could bring in. But really there’s an emphasis on the relationship because sometimes as one of those external partners, it can still be really difficult to get athletes to us if we don’t have a relationship with the coaches. So really emphasizing building that relationship with the coaches so that you know that your athletes are going to a provider that you’re aware of, and there’s an open dialogue there in terms of communication. So hitting on our last question from our panel before we open it up to the audience, you’ve all been vulnerable already, so I’m going to ask you to go a little bit deeper. Can you share some strategies that you use to maintain your own mental health as a coach and with your staff?

Leslie Irvine: Yeah, I think for me, it’s really important to… Like if I let my day flow the way, just organically, often you’re just dealing with issue after issue. And so for me, and it sounds cliche, you’ve got to find your joy. Ultimately, I love what I do. Literally, I have immense amount of gratitude for what I do. So make sure… I try and be intentional about going to a practice or talking to a student athlete, checking in with a coach. That, for me, brings joy. I’m a former coach. Even though I’m wearing a suit, I like to be around practice. And so making sure that I’m intentional about that. Also, just integration. I chose my partner wisely. She’s a former Olympian, and so she understands what I’m doing. And that’s really critical when we think about supporting one another. And we have three under the age of six, and it’s… We call it the circus. And I’m being really open with you all, but I think that it’s important that we role model that you can do that.

But it’s key within our culture and our division that people know that they’re going to see my kids around and that I see our coaches families around, and that I’m intentional about asking how are they, how are the kiddos? And that you stop to say hi. So really it’s about being humanity, right. And it’s also about making sure that you find your joy, right? Don’t be sucked into all the hard things that you’re doing. Be intentional about finding the things that really got you into coaching. It’s so key that we keep everybody in this space here physically, virtually in coaching because we need you all. And it’s such an incredibly, incredibly important thing that you’re doing.

Geoff Kelly: Yes. Yeah, I think you hit it right. I think I talked about this last year as an athlete. One of the biggest things athletes struggle with is identity, right? Yes, I am a basketball player. What else? And I could go on and on, but a lot of athletes and a lot of coaches struggle with that, right? It’s, “Yeah, I’m a coach.” And we all know coaching is hard. I don’t know how many days I’ve stayed up till 1, 2, 3 o’clock in the morning watching film, texting the other coaching staff, “Hey, what’s this team going to do? Hey, I see you back there Travis. What’s Eric Academy going to do? What’s Lewis Palmer going to do?”

It’s a hard job. But to your point, knowing that I’m more than just a coach, I’m a mentor. I’m not a dad yet, so I got time for that. But I’m a brother, I’m a son, I’m a wealth manager. I’m a this or I’m that. What else am I outside of coaching, right? And reminding myself that, “Hey, yes, this is going to be hard at times.” And when those times come, I got my support system that I’m going to call and say, “Hey, this sucks.” But to your point, I do a lot of other things where I check in. It’s okay, we had a bad game, we had a bad practice. Well, I get to go hang out with these other people and do these other things.

I get to go volunteer and do this other stuff. And again, for me, that really grounds me and says, “Hey, yes, that’s important. You’re going to get back to it and you’re going to give it your all.” But again, people need you over here too, and you’re valuable over here too. In spite of what just happened, you’re still valuable. And that’s just a good reminder for me, like hey, to your point, sports are sports. They’re amazing. We all love them and they teach us so much, but there’s a lot more.

Jim Miller: Yeah, I think you’re right. Coaching is hard. We all agree with that. And if you’re passionate about it, you love it. I love it. Like I will do this all day long. If you want to start talking sport, I’ll talk sport all day. If you start talking my sport, then I will talk forever. But if you’re going to have any longevity in this and you’re going to do this for a long time, you actually really do have to figure out when to take a break, when to rest, how to rest, what do you need? Sometimes it’s not even… I think it’s even your personality. How do you actually rest? How do you recover? I’m not going to go talk to somebody. If I’m tired, I’m not going to go share I’m tired, I feel vulnerable, whatever. I’m not going to do that. But if I can exercise, if I can take a day off, if I can go to a beach vacation, 100%, it recharges me.

And I think it comes down to you individually and what you need to recharge that battery. And it’s not, one thing won’t do it. If you think about your athletes and you’re training them, you’re working through some periodization, you’re creating this overload and fatigue, the same thing happens with coaches. As soon as an athlete finishes that block, you’re like, okay, adaptation doesn’t happen until you rest. So we’ve got 10 days rest. If they do anything outside of that rest, you’re like, “Why are you messing up our work? You need to rest.” But as a coach, as soon as that periodization is over, you’re onto the next 50 things.

And I think you have to recognize that you also have to take a break and what that is. On a day-to-day thing, it may just be you get 30 minutes of exercise, you get an hour exercise, whatever that is that recharges your brain, refreshes your brain. But on a bigger macro sort of vision, you actually have to take real breaks. You have to take big breaks. A day doesn’t do it, a weekend doesn’t do it. 10 days sometimes doesn’t do it. I think for you as coaches, that’s the single hardest thing to figure out is, what do you actually need? You’re really good at pushing. Everybody that does this for a long time is really good at pushing.

And generally, you’re… What’s the saying? You give great advice, but you don’t take it. You don’t follow it. And I think figuring that out and actually taking the break is the biggest thing. And if you do that, then you can coach a long time. If you don’t, guaranteed just like an athlete, if you push and push and push, they become overtrained, they’re ineffective. You as a coach, if you push and push and push, guaranteed, you’ll burn out and then it’s over. So you got to figure that part out.

Joe Delagrave: That’s so good. The thought that comes to mind too, realizing how much you can become a martyr in this profession on work, work, work, work, work. And then you get in the habit of like, no, I need to do more and more and more and more. And no one’s in this room because they’re lazy. I would hope not, right? But instead of the dichotomy between laziness and overworking is, and the integration piece is huge with family and whatnot and self-care that way. But I think probably the hardest thing from everyone in the room, everyone that’s watching is that relationship with yourself looking in the mirror. That’s tough, right? Looking in and going, are you giving yourself… The dichotomy isn’t between laziness and work. The dichotomy should be between surrender and work. And so the idea of, at the end of the day, have I done enough?

And a lot of times, you’re going, “Oh, no, no, no. I need to work. I need to work. I need to work. I can do more, I can do more, I can do more.” But really is giving yourself grace at the end of the day to say, “I did a good job. I did enough.” And self-affirming some of that stuff through looking in the mirror, I think it’s a journey that I’m on that is needed. And in our sport, being able to implement that with our athletes. We play in the Paralympic games, five games in five days. And so there’s really not a lot of time for them to sulk at the end. So getting in the habit of going, can we surrender at the end of the day, give ourselves grace on what good happened, what bad happened, and then move on to the next day? I think that’s something that’s really, really powerful, but a huge ask. And it all starts with us and that relationship with the mirror.

Charron Sumler: Yes, that is so important. And really, Joe, what you’re describing to me lays the foundation for all the other tools that our coaches use. So knowing yourself will allow you to know when you need to take rest and how far you can push yourself and when to pull back. Knowing yourself will help you identify what areas of life that you should explore more of so you’re not just so focused on coaching and your job. And also, knowing yourself allows you to be intentional about your day. The same thing that we preach to athletes. Everything that they share, that they do and incorporate, it’s the same things that we use with our athletes and suggest that they do. So I’m really calling us all to do better in terms of taking care of ourselves and practicing what we preach really, because it’s not rocket science, to Leslie’s point. Nothing up here was groundbreaking, but to hear the consistency that these veteran coaches have used. So thank let’s thank them for their time and their vulnerability.

Jim Miller: Are we supposed to clap?

Charron Sumler: We do have some time, I believe, for some questions from the audience. If we have any questions, there’s a microphone coming from the back, I believe.

Audience Member 1: You all got into kind of culture and the importance of having individual or small group meetings. And besides the typical, ‘how are you, how’s your day? What’s going on?’ What are some more pointed questions that you use, if you have any, to kind of dive a little bit deeper into a connection with your athletes?

Joe Delagrave: One of the things that I, we… I always have one-on-ones after every single training camp or competition with our team. We’re all across the United States, and so it’s done on Zoom. But one of the questions I always ask and that they know where I’m going to ask, and so they prepare for it now is, how are you doing on your goals outside of the sport? What are you working towards? What’s that look like? How can I help? How can we help integrate that into what you’re doing within wheelchair rugby? So I think that’s a big one to be able to connect in a deeper way.

Geoff Kelly: Yeah. To your point, just talking about connecting with people, one of my favorite questions to ask our team is, and again, we usually do this first day of tryouts, first day of actual practices. Again, as high schoolers, a lot of these kids know each other already through school, but we try to get deeper than that. So one of the questions we ask is, “Hey, what is something that nobody else knows about you that you wish people did know about you?” And again, you’ll get an array of answers there, right? Oh, I shot thirty-seven percent from the three-point line last year. Nobody knows that about me, but whatever. You guys should know, pass me the ball. But then you’ll get a lot of deeper answers too. Like, “Hey, I actually play piano outside of school. Or I have three siblings that… Two of them live out of state.”

“I don’t really see them too much.” And you just start to open up like, “Hey, this is us.” This is, again, our team. This is… I call it like we’re trying to work towards a family system where I can go and talk to whoever and be open about it. But that question there has helped us, again, dive deeper. And we’ll revisit some of those throughout the season as well. It’s like, “Hey, you said this.” And as a coach, as a coach and staff, or I’ll see other players ask them, “Hey, how’s that going? Are you still doing that or what’s going on there?” And again, it just opens up conversations that would’ve never happened otherwise.

Leslie Irvine: I think for me too, I will often ask, and so you should all be prepared for this question is, what else can I do to support you? And is there anything else that I could be talking about that I’m not talking about? Because I think in my role, I have a lot of information and often there’s somebody sat there maybe hoping to hear it. And so I’ll often end a conversation with, any other topics, anything else on your mind that I can speak to? And so having that kind of service leadership mentality to give the power of that dialogue to the person sat in front of you, right?

Charron Sumler: Yeah. And it can really have some shared power. So I would even suggest perhaps when you start these meetings, asking the person you’re meeting with, what are some of your goals? And what would you like for me to check in with you throughout this time as we’re meeting so they can feel like it’s a part of something that they have some voice over. I thought we had a question up here as well.

Audience Member 2: So a little bit was already asked, but I wanted to ask a question to you about how do you intentionally check in with your coaches knowing that both of your schedules are really, really busy? And how are you intentional about it, and what’s the most effective way to build trust? I think a lot of times coaches are like, I did this, or they want to have owner… You know what I mean? So how do you say, I’m here for you, I want to help you build a culture, I have a lot of knowledge? How do you build that trust?

Leslie Irvine: I think you’re just really intentional about it. To be honest with you, part of it, I schedule meetings. I am thankful to have a really good assistant who… We only have so many hours in the day, and so where you choose to spend your time is really important. So I literally have one-on-ones with the coaches where they know that we’re going to sit down and talk about everything and anything. And that the expectation is, and I encourage you all to be really organized with that time, like come in with an agenda. And they also know what I want to hear on.

But I think it’s also really important too, like for me, being, appearing, it’s not even about being at every game or… It’s building trust. It’s knowing that… Popping in on practice, going to the banquets, going… Just being present in those moments and being emotionally intelligent enough to know that coaches just had a really tough start to the season, or our hockey team just got whipped by DU this past weekend. I’m still salty about it. But being there for your coach at the end saying, “Are you okay? We’re okay. We are okay.” That’s what I said. So I think it’s, it’s… You are master relationship builders, you all are. And so try and do that with the people who can be of support to you, and it’s just intentionality.

Jim Miller: Yeah, I think that’s right. You got to schedule meetings, you have to talk. At the end of the day, coaching is relationships. If you can’t build relationships, you can’t motivate, you can’t coach. Administrators, we’re just older coaches. We’re overgrown coaches.

Leslie Irvine: Yeah.

Jim Miller: If we’re talking to coaches, we’re working with our directors. You still have to talk. You still have to meet and talk. And if you schedule an hour and it’s 10 minutes and you’re done, you’re done. Even if I look above me and look at a CEO, I have one-on-ones with a CEO as well. You probably do with a dean. That’s like your hour to ask them questions. And that’s how I treat it with my CEOs. Like I get an hour every two weeks to ask you as many questions as I can get out. I think when I have coaches come to our meetings, if they come with a list of things, I’m like, that’s a super great meeting. If not, then I have a few things I want to hit on and we’re done. But they’ve got to always happen. Even if they’re not great, they’ve got to always happen.

Leslie Irvine: I think even with the team culture, some coaches ask me how I’m doing. And that, like do that. You’re sitting in front of another human being who’s trying to lead, and if you have that relationship, and I’m like, thanks for asking. That’s great. Here are the leadership things I’m tackling right now, right. And I think that it’s relationship building.

Jim Miller: I’m like, don’t ask me that. That’s my game.

Leslie Irvine: Yeah.

Charron Sumler: Any last lingering questions? We got another question back here maybe too.

Audience Member 3: Hi. So really great conversations around culture, and I think that it’s a lot easier when everyone’s on the same page. And this is more for coaches. How do you handle situations where there’s maybe personal coaches or other coaches who come into that space and maybe don’t agree with the culture or are doing the opposite, or things that are just maybe causing challenges or barriers?

Geoff Kelly: Good question. That’s a really good question. We talk about it and we’ve all been parts of teams where, hey, you may have one or two or three athletes who, again, aren’t fitting in your culture, are not accepting your culture. And again, as a coach, it’s our job to lead them in the right direction, our job to try to get them on board. But you have to have a conversation. And I think it goes back to the relationship with the athletes. Do I have a good enough relationship with this athlete where I can go and, again, sit down with them or sit down with the team, or have a couple of captains on the team pull them aside and say, “Hey, what is it that you don’t agree with? What’s going on? What are your thoughts?”

And again, open that floor to where we can have open dialogue, right? Again, in basketball, we see it a lot. Hey, I see this all the time. “Coach, I think I should be playing more. I think I should be playing more. This person should not be starting in front of me.” And again, that’s never an easy conversation to have. We were talking about making cuts last night, and again, it’s not fun. But again, being able to put it out there and say, okay, where are you actually coming from?

Why do you think what you’re thinking? Why do you think you should be getting more play in time? Or what do you think it is that should be happening? And again, I think a big thing that I believe is, hey, laying that foundation and that groundwork up front, right? So it’s not something that, hey, 5, 6, 7 games into the season, you’re trying to figure it out. Oh, we never talked about it, but now these kids are mad or these athletes are mad. And now I’m trying to double back on it. Well, at the beginning of the season, in your little code of conduct thing, it said this and this and this, but being able to literally just lay it out there up front and refer back to it as times do get hard because we all know adversity is guaranteed. It’s going to happen to everybody. It’s going to happen to every team. What foundations do we have in place that we can refer back to when that time actually comes?

Charron Sumler: And Joe, some final thoughts.

Joe Delagrave: Yeah, it’s a great question. We just get rid of those people and then…

Jim Miller: As fast as you can.

Joe Delagrave: As fast. [inaudible 01:38:42]. Now, confrontation is healthy, it can be healthy. And then the communication aspect’s great. I love to communicate, but if there’s no action behind that, then it’s nothing. And it ends up becoming like, “Oh, this guy’s fake. He’s not authentic.” So action’s important there. And so luckily, we have a very adamant and debate driven captain, which a lot of people know. Chuck Aoki on our team. The dude is an academic and loves the debate. And I’m just like, “Dude, come on now.” But as well as our coaches. When we have those conversations though, it’s a perfect time for everyone in our program to see we’re bought in through healthy confrontation. We’re bought in through, “Yep, we’re not going to agree all the time.” But what does that look like?

How can we go about talking about that? And so for us, it’s just hitting the head on in a healthy way where we’re not going personal or anything like that. It’s just more of like, let’s talk about what you don’t see. Let’s see. And it goes back to that voice, vision, and value. Like you have a voice to speak up, you add value. When people are able to actually speak up. I don’t know everything. And don’t try to get the guys to think that I believe or know everything. And so if they can speak up and there’s room to actually do that, then we’re just growing this thing even bigger.

Charron Sumler: Awesome. Thank you all for your time. Thank you all for your time and energy. We look forward to seeing you all in the workshops as we get a little bit deeper and get our hands a little dirty in some of the tools that coaches can use to take care of themselves.

We’ll stay until Perry goes down, I think. We’ll stay.

Kara Winger: Thank you, panelists. I very much believe in the power of communication. It is respectful to be open and honest and lead with vulnerability in the coach-athlete relationship and in your relationships with your fellow coaches. Really quick story before we go on our coffee break. My friend Dana Lyon was my coach for four years. We’ve been friends since 2005. We went to Olympic Trials, our first Olympic trials together in 2004, and she coached me from 2018 to 2021. So we’re friends. We were just open and honest and vulnerable in practice during the Covid period. There were a lot of tears, a lot of days at practice, and that was okay. And I had some of my best international seasons with her as my coach. When I realized that I needed something different, that I wanted to work with my husband as my coach for my final season, it was so scary to say, “Thank you so much for your time.”

“You did nothing wrong. I just need something different.” But because we had always been vulnerable with each other, we could remain friends. It was terrifying to rip that band-aid off and potentially hurt my friend who was so important to me. But we were able to support each other through that. So it is so powerful to, on both sides, be able to be vulnerable with each other. Same thing happened. I said I quit my job. I resigned amicably because I had excellent leadership that understood that I needed something different in my life, and spent three solid years at this excellent job, first real job after being an athlete. So be honest, be open, communicate vulnerably, and enjoy your coffee. Please be back in your seats at 10:43.